[5.1.05]

Our interview this month is with Sean Payne, major domo of the up-and-coming industrial act Cyanotic. The band's trademark mixture of heavy electro beats, drum n' bass and brutal guitarwork made an impressive splash with last year's Mutual Bonding Through Violation EP. They return now on the cusp of releasing their first full-length disc Transhuman to explain their philosophic and creative approach to music-making and their intent on taking industrial music to the next level.
[Transhuman]
[MBTV]

[SCN]: The name of your debut is Transhuman. Please explain to the uninitiated what this term means and how you feel it represents the tone or theme running throughout the album.

[Sean Payne]: The philosophy of transhumanism is something that we really endorse. The merging of the synthetic with the organic. Promoting the development of humanity with the help of technology. That's the definitive theme that can be found on almost every song on this album. I don't want to spew forth too much more hyperbole and try to pass myself off as a pseudo-intellectual or anything--but its really one of the few philosophies we adhere to and will continue to promote.

[SCN]: Cyanotic's sound is impossible to pigeonhole; you've got a blend of different musical styles in the mix--drum n' bass, electro, EBM, etc. How important is forging a unique sound for yourself, especially within a genre that is strangely lacking in creativity?

[SP]: The importance for us is infinite. There are so many bands in the electronic music scene and so much of it sounds EXACTLY the same. It's kind of frightening--the lack of diversity and originality. Not to say that we don't pay homage to all the bands who were influential to us...but I think there's a big difference between paying homage and out-and-out plagiarism. The lack of diversity is what bothers me even more than the clones though. I don't understand how bands can make an entire album of straight EBM, straight electro, straight metal, etc. You couldn't force me to do that. 10 songs of the same style just bores me to tears. We need that experimentation. The mixture of styles. That's what keeps our interest in making the music.

[SCN]: Sampling seems to be a bit of a lost art in rivet-related music--but Transhuman seems chock full of it! Do you think it's fallen out of favor due to the possibility of litigation or perhaps the perception that it's been "overdone"? Also, what is your thought process for picking a particular sample?

[SP]: I just find something that I think fits with the overall mood of the song. There's no real art to it. Its all just chance. We all play the sample game. Sitting around watching movies--listening for that single vocal byte or atmospheric sound. That's mostly my job though. I am the uber sample geek. As far as people saying the use of vocal samples is "overdone" or "cliche"--I just shrug. I have a soft spot for all that early 90s industrial with the rampant over-usage of samples from "Robocop" and "Full Metal Jacket". I guess its another way of us paying homage to that era. My second passion in life (right behind music) is film--so I like incorporating the two as much as possible. As for the threat of litigations, I don't really understand the reason behind the fear. It's not like we are Negativland sampling U2. You really don't hear about artists getting taken to court unless its like an entire album of samples--like the whole ordeal with Dangermouse using all the sound bytes from Jay-Z and The Beatles.

I don't think that fear of litigation holds any real weight within the independent electronic music scene. It's not like we are talking about mainstream music you hear on MTV or modern rock radio every 10 minutes. This style is still very much an underground niche. I can't think of a single time that I have ever heard about an artist being taken to court for using a couple random sound bytes from movies. If that were the case, I am sure Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, Ministry and countless others would all be either paying royalties out the ass to the grave or rotting in a jail cell somewhere.

[SCN]: Industrial has traditionally been an anti-establishment genre, decrying political injustice, social inequalities and religious oppression--similar to what punk was doing back in the late 70's. How important to you is it to have some sort of message to your music? In other words, do you see yourself writing more songs like "Insurgence" in the future?

[SP]: It all depends. The lyrics for "Insurgence" were written the week of last year's election--so...yeah--the political atmosphere was definitely a huge influence for us on that song. There was this really unsettling feeling presiding over that span of a couple days. Lots of fears and concerns I had to get off my chest. I was seeing the parallels in reality and fiction. "Ignorance is strength." It was like Orwell hadn't written those words any later than the day before last. Most all the lyrics through out the album deal with either anxiety and paranoia--two factors that are way too prevalent in my daily routine. I be a jittery bastard.

[SCN]: One of my favorite Cyanotic songs has always been "Deface," which is a very anthemic and dance floor-oriented type of tune. In my opinion, what makes it interesting is the ironic nature of the lyrics. Could you go into a little detail on what inspired you to pen them?

[SP]: I was working underage as a DJ at this local club for a couple months towards the end of 1999. The people in attendance were the average types you expect to see at your local goth/industrial/fetish/whatever night. My eyes were always on the crowd. Trying my best to learn more about the audience. Learning what songs appeal to which subsets and all that. Then I began noticing--nobody really gave a shit what I was playing unless it was "Worlock." 90% of the people weren't there to dance or hang out and have fun. Most people were there to show off the new $200 pair of boots with 12 inch heels or that new uber import-only PVC corset.

The music was secondary to the fashion for these people. It's like the music was just another accessory. That was just fucking insane to me. So that's where the lyrics for "Deface" stem from. "All just victims of the fashion. Meaningless and mindless drones. Lost beyond my comprehension. Faux rebellion from catalogues." Just that complete befuddlement. That not to say I have a problem with attractive people made even more attractive with the addition of tight vinyl. More power to 'em--as long as the people in question are at least just as passionate about the music as the fashion. The preening fashion whore types just need to give up now though.

[SCN]: Do you have a favorite song on the new album, or one that perhaps best encapsulates what Cyanotic is all about?

[SP]: I really don't have a favorite. There are certain sections of particular songs that are my favorites though. The breakdowns in "Beta Blocker" and "Order Out Of Chaos." The verse synth in "Sensory Deprivation." Lots of little things here and there--but not a favorite song overall really. I am better at judging my own music now than before though. It really took me a long time to get comfortable with listening to my own music. I just couldn't do it up until a couple months ago. Like--actually just sit back and enjoy it for what it is. All I would hear were the phantom imperfections that no one (even the other members) heard. I don't really know what was responsible for the change. I guess I just got my head out of my ass. Stop and accept the facts. These songs were finally done. No more re-recordings. No more re-tweakings of re-tweakings of a synth loop for hours on end. It's always hardest for me to let go of the songs--to finally say "that's it". I guess I just finally made it to that point where I knew there was nothing else to add to these songs.

As for the best representation of our overall sound? I would probably say "Order Out Of Chaos." It's heavy. It's fast. It runs the gamut from drum 'n' bass to industrial to metal--all with a fair amount of glitching atop it all and a tip of the hat to all our big influences.

[SCN]: There has been a resurgence of sorts in industrial music in the last few years with many veteran acts releasing albums after a lengthy hiatus (Skinny Puppy, Chemlab, etc.) Do you attribute this the random ebb and flow of music industry or is there "something in the air" you feel might be responsible? Do you expect industrial to ever surpass the mainstream exposure it gained in the mid 90's?

[SP]: I wonder about that myself. There's just so many bands re-emerging. Crawling back out from the black hole of the mid-to-late 90s. I don't think it has anything to do with the music industry. Majors could give a shit less about this type of music. The niche for electronic/industrial musicians isn't on the radio or MTV--it's commercials, video games and movie soundtracks. I remember hearing "The Ride" by Alec Empire in a Honda commercial on MTV a couple weeks ago. I was flipping out. It was the best music I had heard on MTV in years. I always hear bands like DJ? Acucrack and Acumen Nation as background music on all the hipster reality shows like "Road Rules" too. That's the niche. Basic cable is THE niche. Heh.

I don't think this scene will ever achieve the pseudo-mainstream popularity it did in the mid 90s. That's fine by me. This is underground music. It's not meant for mass consumption. The majority is not in favor of abrasive music anymore. Even metal is full of whiners these days. A heavy verse with abrasive yells amid thick riffs leads into--a guy whining falsetto-like about his problems in the chorus? I don't understand when music fans became so damn sad. The generation of music fans in the 90's were a bunch of angry bastards. Full of piss and vinegar. You had some angry youth on the radio. I can't pinpoint the exact change--but it was somewhere in the late 90's. Quality of music was making a swift descent by the new millennium. Look at 1994. A prime example--Nine Inch Nails. Whether you love 'em or hate 'em--NIN's still a million times better than anything on the radio now-a-days. All that faux indie, 70s rock revival, emo, pop punk, ballad metal shit you hear all over modern rock radio now-a-days. Ack.

[SCN]: Describe the current Cyanotic lineup and their roles in the songwriting process.

[SP]: I do all the vocals, sampling, looping, sequencing and the main portions of programming, editing, mixing and lyrics. Drew (Rosander) writes all the guitars and most of the synths as well as adding his own little nuances to the programming. Brian (Blake) is the odd jobs guy. He's doing a bit of everything here and there--whether it's bass, sequencing, programming, editing, mixing, lyrics, etc. He's just good at doing all of it and he's really become an essential help in keeping the whole Cyanotic/Glitch Mode machine moving since coming aboard about midway through the writing process of Transhuman.

Live--it's me doing vocals and triggering samples. Drew is playing guitars and bass along with Jan (Szpila) pounding along to the programming on his electronic drum kit and Wendy (Mills) playing live bass synth. We just got this new lineup together not more than a couple months ago--so it's really been an interesting experience thus far. We had never been a full band up 'til then. It's creating much more of a dynamic that I think is really going to crossover well to our live show. I think the energy is going to be exceptionally high with this current lineup.

[SCN]: What projects have you all participated in previously?

[SP]: Drew was in a couple local area garage-type metal bands. Booty was in more local punk bands than I have fingers to count with. Jan was in a couple of metal and industrial bands in the Chicago area. Wendy was in a local band that never did much of anything as far as I know. Previous to this--I think I am the only person who really hadn't done anything previous. I mean, I had little jam sessions in friend's basements with distortion pedals, drum machines, Casios and guitars before--but it was never anything all that serious. Just total wankery up until I really got my first piece of real gear (from ol' pally Link Winter) that I began taking this music thang even remotely serious. I think that was about 2000.

[SCN]: What has been the high point and the low point for the band thus far?

[SP]: Playing with so many great bands that we had all been listening to for so long. Everybody from Bile, Defragmentation, Acumen Nation, etc. Touring was the high point for me. I can't wait to do that again--especially with Drew (who wasn't able to come on the first tour because of personal reasons). Playing in a different city every other night. Partying with fans and meeting new people. Walking around Bourbon Street drunk in New Orleans. Waking up with a hellacious hangover and replenishing energy with a heap of chili-hashbrowns at The Waffle House. Going swimming after hours at hotels and shorting out sound systems.

Low points? I don't know. The hard drive failures. Both definite low blows.

[SCN]: What event or experience made you decide to pursue music as a serious endeavor?

[SP]: I think it was really all around the same era--like 1997 to 1999. My first couple of concerts were KMFDM with Pig and Rammstein (pre-"Du Hast") with Acumen Nation and Hanzel Und Gretyl. Both of those shows were just out-and-out greatness. Hearing the electronics at such loud volumes. That really made me want to get up and start. It was around the time of my father's death from a heart attack a couple days after my birthday in 1999 that I really made the decision to pursue music. I think YMCA officials call it "a positive outlet".

[SCN]: As you mentioned, you've suffered two hard drive failures on the road to putting out Transhuman. How frustrating have those setbacks been? Did you lose anything significant or were you able to recreate whatever you lost?

[SP]: A good deal of incomplete songs were lost during the first hard drive failure. I would pay high amounts to have ever been able to get ahold of backups from that computer--but the whole thing was completely shot. No possible way of retrieving any of that. All-in-all I think there were around 50 songs in various stages of completion not counting the material from the E.P. The second hard drive failure wasn't as bad--as we were about midway through the writing process of "Transhuman" so we had plenty of backups. It was still enough of a smack in the face that we were set back by about three months. We were able to recreate and even improve upon a good deal of what was lost with the last hard drive.

[SCN]: Has your gear list improved from the Mutual Bonding Through Violation days, and do you think that better gear necessarily makes you a better musician?

[SP]: In terms of physical gear? No. We basically have nothing except a MIDI controller, Roland G-707 guitar synth, a computer, a pair of decent monitors and a microphone--which was basically what we had when we were first recording Mutual Bonding. The monitors have been very helpful and are a pseudo-new addition--but the only big gear improvements have been in the form of computer programs like VST effects and soft synth plug-ins. I don't really know if more gear makes you better. It certainly makes it easier. We are planning to have some actual hardware by the time we tour again in summer. A nice synth capable of doing some deep bass and harsh leads. I want to get my hands on a vintage drum machine or sampler too. None of its really necessary though. The variety of instruments just makes the whole process of writing and recording much more fun.

[SCN]: Both Cyanotic releases feature some unique sleeve artwork. How do you feel it represents your musical vision?

[SP]: Good that you bring up the art--as I get the chance to whore out my buddy who does all our artwork. He's a man of uber quality by the name of Johnathan Fritz. Everybody can feel free to check out his sites--www.warehunt.com and www.zahkunst.net. Very awesome futurist visuals. We didn't really have any concept for the E.P. art. It was just a couple of really interesting designs that the guy had done for us. The art for the full length very much represents the promoting of that melding of the synthetic and organic we are always talking about. Or you could say its another example of the guy just drawing up some cool-looking designs and us saying "let's use that." Whichever way you want to look at it. Heh.

[SCN]: Let's talk a little bit about Cyanotic's first stab at putting zeros and ones to CD--the Mutual Bonding Through Violation EP. In retrospect, are you still pleased with the final product?

[SP]: Sure. I mean, there are a million different things I wish I were able to fix. Most of the problems stemming from the overall lack of production values and all that. We had such a blast recording that E.P. though. There were so many great nights of staying up and writing non-stop. Downing four pots of coffee and trucker's speed for days on end--learning how to craft our sound and actually construct songs with verses and choruses. That was the first time we really made the decision to get our asses in gear--just about 2 weeks after we got an offer to go out and support a bunch of bands we had been enjoying. That whole want to tour is what was really instrumental to the creation of that E.P.

Overall, it was basically just a demo to get out name name out to the right people. It did its job. We got a decent amount of radio and club play, the latter of which I would never expect. We got some very positive reviews from some great publications and a couple truly awesome memories from touring in support of its release.

[SCN]: How much of a learning process was putting together that EP? Was it helpful in preparing for a proper full-length release?

[SP]: Very much so. Like I said, we really hadn't had any experience actually making real "songs." All the previous material had been a bunch of random beats and noises thrown together with no real flow to it. It was especially helpful because we had never really done so together, as a functioning duo. The entire E.P. was a learning process. A very quick learning process, seeing as everything was put together in just about two months. I mean everything too. Those songs were barely two months old by the time we were holding the shrink-wrapped copies of the discs in our hands. That was a real exhilarating experience--just cranking out a record like that. I hope to do that more so on the next album too. No more dwelling on every little sound for hours at a time. That's not to say we are going to revert back to the production standards of the E.P. or anything. The recording quality surely wasn't intentional or anything. That was just another example of our learning process--learning what to do and not do as far as layering and mixing. Using the right (or wrong) frequencies and decibels and all that.

[SCN]: You managed to sell over 1000 copies with no label support at all, which is an impressive accomplishment to say the least! To what do you attribute the success of that release?

[SP]: The only factors I can attribute any of our success to is word of mouth and the internet. The net is so crucial to bands in the underground. I am just really happy that we have such a badass bunch of supporters who are going out of the way to let other people know about our existence. We are so thankful for all the fans who have been helping us out since day one. We aren't one of those bands that hides in the studio. We are always posting on our forums and bullshitting with people. We love that interaction--whether it's live or on the net. One of my biggest inspirations to keep making music is so that I can continue meeting interesting people who share similar interests.

[SCN]: Some of the songs that appear on the new CD originated from Mutual Bonding Through Violation. What was the impetus for reworking these tunes instead of just writing completely new material?

[SP]: Basically, the recording quality of the MBTV incarnations. We didn't initially set out to have the songs from Mutual Bonding appear on the full length--but we began to rethink everything after we taught ourselves a couple recording tricks. We just thought we could give the songs a proper do-over. Add a couple loops. Re-record the guitars and vocals. Plus, it was another big learning experience for us. Going back to these songs we had written almost two years ago and pretty much re-making each song from scratch.

[SCN]: The production values of Transhuman far outstrip its predecessor. The notable difference: the enlistment of Cracknation studios to help out in the recording process. Could you describe your experience working with them?

[SP]: Jason Novak and all the Cracknation crew have been really big influences on Cyanotic from the beginning, so it was just a total honor to have Jason helping with the mixing and mastering. Getting to record at Cracknation was a good deal of fun that we definitely plan to do more of in the future. The basic role of Jason was helping polish the sounds overall...adding little effects here and there, making sure all the sounds were at the right levels, kicking me in the ass when I would to tweak a synth loop for an hour, etc.

[SCN]: And what "improvements" to earlier versions of your songs are you most pleased with?

[SP]: Just the overall quality in general. The sounds have a "thump" to 'em now--not a dull thud. The bass hits like it should. The snares pop more. Everything just sounds better overall. I was really happy to add that amen break in the new version of "Order Out Of Chaos"--that and being able to re-record and re-effect the vocals so that people might actually understand what I am saying this time around.

[SCN]: Let's delve into some of your earlier influences. I recall first meeting you years ago on the original incarnation of the 16 Volt board, and you were one of the few people to follow through with a track for the aborted "16 Volt Tribute" album. (The cover for "Two Wires Thin" is still available at cyanotic-online.com for download!) What are your thoughts about the band today and how influential are they to your current sound?

[SP]: I would say early 16 Volt is still a pretty big influence. Demography and Wisdom--pure early 90s industrial rock bliss. The later albums aren't really all that much of an influence. Not to say I don't still listen to any of the later material--it's just not very influential to me. Great songs and great production, but that balance of guitars and programming was lost after Skin. Too much gee-tar. I still say 16 Volt is one of the best bands of the 90s though. I was an addict for those discs.

[SCN]: In some of our conversations I remember you expressing a fondness for early Nine Inch Nails, Filter and Acumen Nation in your "formative listening years." Name an element from each of those bands that you still find yourself referencing when writing Cyanotic songs.

[SP]: Hard to say really. The fondness for all 3 bands still remains--but Acumen Nation is the only band I really think I draw influence from when I am sitting down to program. The first time I really ever heard the mix of breakbeats and heavy guitars with a quasi-industrial influence was More Human Heart by Acumen Nation. All the songs from the early years of Acumen Nation were a huge influence on my musical endeavors. The layers of sound were just fantastic. The low bitrates adding to the overall crunchiness of the sounds. Great music through and through.

Nails--I guess Nails is still a pretty big influence. I still don't know what to make of UH-WITH-UH-TEETH-UH though. People are hailing it as Reznor's comeback album. I never understood where the guy went. It's not like The Fragile was a bad set of records or anything. It was surely much better than the new disc. The big Nails influence always came from a production standpoint. I never had any interest in creating lyrics like Reznor or anything--but his production values are totally awe-inspiring. Some of the best sounds I have ever heard emit from Nine Inch Nails albums.

Filter--I really don't think Filter is much of an influence. I mean, they were one of the first bands I ever got into--but I don't really think any of Filter's music bears much an imprint on the Cyanotic styles. That's not to say I still don't rock out to Short Bus every couple of months or anything. Its just a totally raw and primal sounding album. Great production and awesome songs. Not always the best lyrics, but the intensity of the music more than made up for it. The later albums weren't really able to capture that flair. I like a few songs from Title Of Record--but after that it kind of became formulaic radio rock. I really hope the new album delivers.

[SCN]: Cyanotic seems to have a lot of irons in the fire lately. Let's get everyone up-to-date on what to expect for the future:

I heard there was some remix work in the offing?

[SP]: We are currently working on a complete re-working of a song for The Aggression. FJ DeSanto has been a big supporter of us since hearing the E.P. and got us a deal to do a couple remixes for The Aggression and Chemlab. We were more than happy to accept--even though we are working on a super-tight schedule. All the promotion for the Cyanotic album along with the remix work and living my normal life takes its toll. Sometimes I just have to stop what I am doing and try my best to breathe--but its been a wild journey thus far that I have absolutely no complaints about.

[SCN]: How does the label situation look at the moment?

[SP]: We have two labels aiding Glitch Mode (our own little mini-label) with the release of Transhuman. The first being Digital Brothel--home to a wealth of quality artists like VTG and Rob Ferent. The second being Cracknation--home to all the Acu-projects. The help we have been receiving from both has been exceptional. It's just a great feeling to have people you respect helping you out with getting your name out. As for future label deals, I really don't know. There have been a couple offers. We are just in a holding pattern right now. Feeling out what suits us best.

[SCN]: Any plans for touring to support Transhuman?

[SP]: Most definitely. We are actually in the process of booking the Transhuman dates for summer as we speak. We can't wait to get back out on the road in support of this album. It's what we were put on this earth to do--play shows and party with people of similar mindsets. I can't wait. It's going to be a state of terminal bliss. The best way to keep up with announcements concerning shows is to sign up for the mailing list on the main page of www.cyanotic-online.com--so everybody who has interest best be doing so.

[SCN]: And I assume swag is available for bodily adornment...?

[SP]: Yessum. Just got our re-shipment of merch in the mail from Monster Merchandise. Shirts, buttons, stickers, CDs, etc. All too damn cheap to not purchase--especially the CDs. I understand the reason for pirating CDs with a $20 markup--but c'mon--its $10. I purposely made the merch as cheap as possible because I know the feeling of being a broke-ass music fan. I remain one to this very day, but even I could afford $10 if I have really have faith in the band.

[SCN]: Shameless self-whoring time: any other projects or upcoming news we should be aware of?

[SP]: Our label will be releasing a compilation of up-and-coming electronic / industrial artists for the Darksonus website in the very near future. Lots of great artists appearing on that--Diverje, PTI, v01d, Hate Statement, Cyanotic, Seventh Image, etc. That's something I have been working on for a long while now, so it's going to be a relief to get that out. We hope to begin releasing more compilations for up-and-coming acts in the heavy electronic vein in the future. It all just depends on the financial state of Glith Mode. Right now we have enough to keep the Cyanotic machine running strong...but we are hoping to expand and begin releasing as much quality underground music as possible via Glitch Mode.

[SCN]: In parting, I would be remiss to mention that anyone who knows you is aware that your love for early 80's sci-fi flicks like Predator and Terminator knows no boundaries! Do you think this futuristic faire helped you develop your appreciation for industrial music?

[SP]: 100%. I remember buying the cassette tape of the "T2" soundtrack when I was 8 years old. I would listen to that soundtrack non-stop. My mother said it was "robot funeral music". Heh. I can surely see the contrasts between then and now.
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